Saturday, April 04, 2009

The Theological Virtues and Reason

Atheist seem to set up a false dichotomy between faith and reason in a very similar way that Protestants make a false dichotomy between faith and works. The reality is that you can't separate faith and reason just like you can't separate faith and works. The categories overlap. Faith without works is dead because we need faith working through love. The same is true with faith and reason. Any basis of reason has to have a starting point that is unprovable, reason requires faith. Human reason is connected to not only to faith but also hope and love. It is impossible for humans to see something without placing value upon what is seen. You don't just see a tree but a big or small tree, a beautiful or ugly tree. Reason requires not only faith but also hope and love. This is because without faith, hope, and love humans are not able to see reality. Reality that has its foundation in Christ.


don't worry i am done already said...

I understand that for the past week or so, u felt that u r heavily under-fire, let me assure u that it'd soon be over n i will soon leave u alone, so, soon, u will not need to work so hard to keep posting new posts in an attempt to “drown” the comments i make.

U could of cos delete my comments, but as u might suspect i'll take that as an ultimate victory.

Luckily u did not indulge in ad hominem, for i take that as partial victory.

Over the past few days I merely wanted to test how much u know & how far u would stretch your arguments, n of cos whoever else that might be reading the comments will be unintended bonus for me.

I have concluded that u do not know sufficiently enough to reliably make an informed choice on the issue of divinity. (do trust me on this, i have crossed swords with enough apologists n the like, n they know much much more than you do, not just on their own arguments but also my arguments)

to be honest, i do not need u to cross over to my side, for u r not worthy at the moment, in fact u do not know enough to make either choices, to be brutally honest, i think u do not know enough to make any choice/decision regarding god's existence or in-existence.

thus i would suggest u work hard to buck up on your knowledge (not blind reading of verses; copy and pasting from other ppl & vomiting out what ever u have read elsewhere word by word n feel good abt it)

if u want to make a informed choice, least u should know what u r doing. So u need to work on it.

Of cos, i am offensive n i know that, but, there is no way not to be offensive for this kind of discussion, in the same way there is no way u can be inoffensive towards me.

I know of priests n pastors who have lost their faith, they force themselves to carry on for thats the only thing they know how to do in their lives, if not they lose their jobs. N they don't know how to do anything else. It is very sad, for they know their lives are not authentic, but they have to carry on with it.

I understand that it is not easy for u to see the truth, it is even more difficult for u to admit it, for the pressures of of society, family and peers become too great to overcome, even if u have a niggling thought in the back of your mind that what u believe in now could very well be a lie, u do not have the courage to pursue it for the implications are very inconvenient indeed.

It will take considerable amounts of courage to overcome what i see as the greed of imaginary promises and the fear of punishment from the imaginary powers that be.

Even as a agnostic/atheist i have always examined my values rigorously and consider if i have been wrong, i can “see” the other side of the equation, it's not just abt indulging in my own circular arguments for u cannot tackle what u do not understand effectively.

Agnosticism/atheism does not claim to be all knowing, it never had, in fact the ppl who held these beliefs are perhaps the among first to ask “what do we not know?” Evolution does not claim to be all knowing either, it only states what can be observed reliably through critical examination of whatever information thats available to us.

Einstein never claimed he knew everything either, the fact that he doesn't have all the equations does not make e=mc square any less true, if he stops at 1+1=2 and say he doesn't have all the answers n he should therefore give up, then there would not be any e=mc square to start with.

The theist assumes that there must *be* a purpose or meaning to life. It is not obvious that it must have one and no evidence has been presented to make the case.

Evolution not being able to give u any answer regarding the so call meaning of life will not invalidate it in anyway.

Same with atheism/agnosticism, if it does not produce anything abt the meaning of life, it cannot be used as an argument to say it's not true.

In reverse, same logic applies for religion, just becos it claims to have an answer to the meaning of life does not prove that it is valid.

My pet cat or a lunatic at a mental institute can claim he knows the meaning of life, should we then, worship to my cat or the lunatic??

u can say u have scriptures n history, n my cat doesn't, but your scriptures are written by christians FOR christians, if it is a self sustaining conspiracy there is no way of checking, the scribes themselves can be victims of lies themselves. Regardless of that, it does not change my point that is a a big big dubious assumption that truth and meaning of life goes together, who says so? Nobody except for the religious becos it is a useful link in a chain of lies.

Gravity is real also, does it tell u anything abt the meaning of life? I guess not.

Meaning to say, true things do not need to have a bearing on the meaning of life inbuilt into them.

in other words, claiming to know all the answers and everything does not not make religions any more true. it is obvious that many of those answers are made up my humans anyway and recently they have been made to eat the humble pie when science proves them wrong.

the earth was laid on it's foundations and COULD NOT MOVE?? the earth was center of everthing and all the celestial objects revolve around it?? who, u tell me who is the one who claim to know everything n ate the humble pie in the end?

Look, I am not being bias, but any human being that has not being indoctrinated since a child can acknowledge the possibility that religion can very well be a chain of lies (although those who invented the lie may have good intentions, but good intentions do not always translate into good consequences remember?)

from a purely practical consideration, see n think for your self how much harm has religion did to humanity.

All the killing and religious wars, unending hostility and violence, all driven by blind faith.

Humans put so much effort into believing something which is very likely to be false yet it brought much more harm than benefits, is it worth it?

Surely u can see it.

My last point is i suggest u seriously consider the possibility that you might have been wrong in a unbiased manner & u might have wasted a large part of your life worshipping something which does not exist, n more importantly it's implications on living an authentic life.

U don't need to convert to my side or any side, u don't even have to say anything to me or anyone else, u just need a moment of peaceful thinking and after that lots of work on being more knowledgeable.

Anonymous said...

with your intellect u probably cannot understand everything in this URL above, which is only the tip of the ice berg on the issues of faith and reason.

in summary, your convoluted kindergarden justifications on matters of faith and reason is simply very amusing and out of your depth.

i suggest u not try to argue things beyond your intellectual depth, obviously u have not taken my advice to read up seriously.